REVEALED: Jaylen Brown’s RISE Changes EVERYTHING for Boston Celtics Fans—What’s NEXT?

Boston Celtics blow a 3-1 series lead as questions swirl around Jayson Tatum’s injury return, Jaylen Brown’s future, and Joe Mazzulla’s playoff decisions. Is a major roster shakeup coming, or can Brad Stevens find the missing piece for another title run?

Gabby (Hurlbut) Maljanian and NBC Sports Boston’s Kayla Burton break down the highs and lows of the Celtics’ overachieving season—highlighting Tatum’s Achilles comeback, Brown’s MVP-caliber stretch, and the team’s struggles without a dominant big man. Hot topics include Mazzulla’s reliance on the three-point shot, trade buzz around Giannis Antetokounmpo and Bam Adebayo, and the impact of potential moves involving Derrick White or Jalen Johnson. With the Eastern Conference heating up and Boston fans demanding answers, can the Celtics’ core adapt and contend with rising stars like OKC and the Spurs? Don’t miss this candid conversation on what’s next for Boston’s path back to NBA glory.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Boston Balling, your home for all things Boston sports. I'm your host, Gabby Maldanian. And as a lot of you know, I also host the Daily Lockdown Red Sox podcast. You can check me out there as well. But it's been a really exciting year overall, I would say, minus the Red Sox, maybe a little bit in terms of Boston sports. Lots of teams that overachieved. You can make an argument that the Patriots overachieved tremendously. The Bruins even overachieved, I'd say, this year too. And the Celtics, considering the circumstances, I would say, definitely overachieved as well. So definitely lots of exciting things this year in Boston Sports. And I have a great guest on with me to chat about what turned into a really exciting season for the Boston Celtics. Kayla Burton, who does a tremendous job covering the ins and outs of the Boston Celtics. Great basketball mind. I definitely admire her work and a lot of what she does for NBC Sports Boston, talking about the Celtics on a game-to-game basis. Kayla, thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

How are you doing today? Yeah, I mean, thank you so much. Well, first of all, for that intro, but also for having me on. I was, I was messaging, we were messaging back and forth. And it's so funny when you messaged me to be on your podcast, you have no idea. I felt so honored because I listen to you every day. Like every time the podcast comes out, there's two podcasts specifically. Um, Celtics Talk Podcast, because that's my guy, Chris Foresberg. You know, we're family here. And then yours, locked on um podcast with the Red Sox, because I'm trying to up my knowledge more so. I know I'm mainly Celtics, Patriots, and stuff, but I really am trying to be a consumer of Red Sox stuff. And I listen to you every day. And I'm not like literally yesterday, I was we were just talking about the lack of offense that the Sox are having and runners in scoring position. But what I love about you is that you get what you're talking about, you're very knowledgeable, and on top of that, you make it realistic. You're not trying to blow the whole thing up if the socks suck or if the offense isn't where it's supposed to be, but you're also like, okay, how like in what areas can they get better? So you do such a fantastic job. I'm personally honored to be on here. And also I'm I'm excited to dive into this because there is a lot of crossover between maybe what the Red Sox are going through right now and what the Celtics are also going through. So I'm happy to dive into it. But yeah, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, thank you. That was so kind of you to say. I really appreciate you uh listening and consuming the Red Sox content because baseball's a long season. They play so many games, and you know, it's just it's it's easy for people to start panicking early on in the season, but we just have to remember there's a lot of season left. Um, but they do need to make some changes if they they want to contend. And that's kind of the reality of the situation. And it's interesting because you mentioned similarities with the Celtics and going into this season for the Celtics, I mean, my expectations were a lot lower than what they actually showed. Um, because, you know, without Jason Tatum, they lost some other key pieces from that championship squad. And it just felt like it was a bit of an overhaul and, you know, maybe a little bit of a roster rebuild, kind of a quote unquote gap year, as people are describing it on social media, in terms of where the Celtics team was at, because they were like, well, they're not going to contend this year anyway. You know, let's use this as a rebuild year, see what maybe some of these other guys have that haven't gotten a lot of opportunities in the past and kind of see what we're working with moving forward. Obviously, they at least in my uh in my view exceeded my expectations by far. You know, landing the two seed in the Eastern Conference had a disappointing ending to the season in terms of the way that that playoff series went. But, you know, what are your thoughts on generally how things went for the Celtics this year compared to your expectations going into it?

SPEAKER_00 3:38

For sure. I think you nailed it. I think, you know, we have to look at the whole grand scheme of everything. I think we're coming off of a fresh collapse in the first round to the 76ers, a team that they were up three to one in franchise history. They've never been up three to one and then lose it ever. Um so it's fresh, right? I think like the natural Boston, Bostonian fan reaction and Celtics fan reaction is like, what happened? This is insane, blow it up. Like, you know, now JB is making comments, getting in a battle with Stephen A. Smith, and it's like, oh, we're not like it's just everyone's losing their minds. And it makes sense, right? Like, look, we're a winning city, but let's just start with kind of the expectations and the barometer of where this whole season was headed. And I think that they've like far exceeded expectations. Even Brad Stevens, who I feel like has the most rational pulse of life, but also like the Celtics in general. Like when you think you're about to lose your mind, just listen to Brad Stevens and he'll be realistic, but also make sense of it all. And I feel like his press conference um really just nailed it. Like, I feel like he understood where the team is at, where everyone is at, as a fan pulse, and also where the organization needs to head towards. So I think like to start it off, look, no Jason Tatum. All the questions were gonna be what's you know, just Jalen Brown's team. What is he gonna look like? He exceeded X Men. I I think he really proved to be that number one guy. Um, at least in the regular season. You know, you look at the postseason and then you can argue, all right, Jalen Brown has and this team has work to do. And I think that showed itself in the postseason. Even with Jason Tatum being back, I think it was obviously disappointing um him getting injured. It was disappointing in game five when they completely, you know, they they yeah, game five. I was like, that was when they were at home. They had a chance to win it, and that would have changed the trajectory of like, okay, they could have seen the Knicks in round two, but they go back to Philly and Jason Tatum gets hurt, and it just like they were playing scared at that point. They go back to Philly where they already handled business two games in a row, beating them. Joel Embiid comes back, and then just the whole series shifts. They come back and they played scared a little bit. Um, I think Joel Embiid did completely change like the entire series, but I also think it exposed the Celtics in a lot of ways. I think I'm going all over here right now, but I think as in total of like this in totality of the season, I think they did a great job. I think Joe Missoula pushed the right buttons with Luca Garza, um, asking you know, guys to step up, like the Jordan Walshes of the world, the Ugo Gonzalez is like we've we we're starting to see that they can they can be a playoff kind of team. The thing is, is they they need, in my opinion, they need a big man. I think Namiyash Keda developed incredibly this season. This guy, I didn't know what to think of Nimi. Like, I was like, Oh, a season ago, he was hardly in the picture. Here he is, being the number one starting center. That's like being great in the pick and roll. He's being um great around the rim, able to finish better in years past. Yes, he got into early foul trouble in that series, and that's where I think he was exposed. But what a development we saw out of Kata. And then Luca Garza was kind of that one-two punch. Anthony Simons uh was just electric in terms of scoring, and they had to trade him. And I understood that trade. I think it was brilliant of Brad Stevens to say, look, we need a big man. Now, Vooch, I don't think, panned out to be the guy with this specific group. Um, he didn't even play game seven, and that was a coach's call. And I and I understand, I think that like defensively he had his struggles, but I think it's a clear intel that in order for them to be successful, and we're seeing it in this uh OKC Thunder series, or excuse me, OKC Spurs series, that a big man is needed, that one-two punch is needed. And I think that's something that the Celtics are lacking right now and got exposed in the series. So I know I went all over the map there. I think look, if you're if if you're trying to figure out where how to feel with the Celtics moving forward, I think that they're a team that if they get the right personnel, um they can make a real run. And and I'm curious to see what they do with the Jays. You know, do they keep the Jays? Do they trade Jalen Frionis? We can dive into all of that. Um, but they're in a good spot. I I wouldn't hit the panic button at all. In fact, I think that you should be encouraged, especially because Jason Tatum didn't even get a full season and he was still showing, okay, he he had no problem being back.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah, I mean, the way that Jason Tatum just went about his business this season and like all the talk of is he even gonna come back this season, and you know, the rumblings of there's a chance that he recovers quickly than they're used to seeing people recover from that type of injury. There was a lot of excitement and buzz surrounding, well, will we see Jason Tatum at some point this year? Then he comes back, and I felt like him coming back was at a good time because it wasn't right when the playoffs started. It was a little bit early enough to where the team could hopefully get reacclimated to Jason Tatum being back. Because I know he mentioned something about, you know, I don't know if me coming back is a good idea because they've been playing so well. I don't want to want to break that chemistry that they have going. Um, so I did think, you know, if he comes back, it kind of has to be before the playoffs because you don't want it to be these guys haven't played with him this year at all. And then all of a sudden they're in a playoff environment and they have to get Tatum back into the mix. So I did like that he was able to come back before that. And if you really think about what Jason Tatum was able to do when he came back, still playing like a superstar after everything he had been through and after all the talk of, yeah, this is unprecedented for somebody to come back that quickly. I mean, he deserves a ton of credit for just going out and just making it look like he didn't really skip a beat when he came back, truly.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

This dude was getting double doubles. He had like in the first five games, he was actually double doubles. And I'm like, what? You know, and so yeah, I think, man, I I was also I I thought Tatum really showed so much vulnerability in terms of this comeback, not only the journey and the whole document series, but also like when he what was it? It wasn't first take, it was that with Ryan Clark on his podcast, but but basically saying, you know, I I don't this was the most vulnerable part that I think he said in terms of the comeback. Him saying, I don't, you mentioned it, I don't want to disrupt what we have going on already. I don't, you know, in a negative way. And then that's when Joe Mazzula was like, if he's gonna disrupt anything, it's only gonna be in a positive way. And that's literally what he did until he got hurt or had that kind of like thigh, you know, uh issue or injury. Um he looked incredible. And the best part was he fit in with what was already going on, he fit in with what Jane, like he kind of knew and had the humility to say, okay, one, I'm still Jason Tatum. So like let's not forget that. Two, I understand that my team also has a new thing going with Jalen Brown kind of being at the helm. And and he played into that. I felt like what I think actually, what I noticed about Tatum being back, once he got comfortable and wasn't playing timid or kind of, you know, he had to get his footing back and the conditioning and even just like diving after loose balls. That was Scal and I were talking about like he's not fully there yet. That was in the first couple of games or first couple of weeks that he was back. And then once the playoffs happened, he started diving after loose balls, attacking the rim, kind of like, you know, once he saw the ball going through the net, like um, able to just really be his true self and without hesitancy. And even better, I think we saw Jason Tatum that wasn't forcing things. I think last year and even seasons ago, he's always had to carry this team on his back. And now you get an improved Jalen Brown who's carrying this team into the postseason. Jason Tatum, game by game, is getting better and better, but he's also not forcing things. Like I feel like before he would jab, jab, jab, and maybe like attack and do a um kind of that mid-range, like like fadeaway shot that would work and then not work. But now it's like he just was reading the defense and allowing it to come to him and able to move the ball when he needed to. I think what we're seeing is a Jason Tatum who also had time. Like when you're injured, you're being forced to be in to watch the game. And so you're almost watching film night in and night out. And I know he's pissed off because he wants to be out there, but it actually may have served him immensely because he was able to just watch and see like uh he gets to see his teammates being like, wouldn't have done that there. Uh, I would attack here. This is what you gotta do. I would do this. And now he's able to apply that. So I think like you know, sometimes when you're injured, it's a blessing in disguise. No one wants to see you go through that injury, especially rupturing your Achilles. But maybe this added a layer to his game that I don't know if he would have gained if he were to not get hurt. So I think like, yes, you want to see him healthy. I I am curious to know if um, you know, internally, if Missoula or Stevens or any of these guys, the kind of the front office guys that were able to decide, even Nick Sang and Nick Sang has done an incredible job, Jason Tatum's trainer, um, of getting him up to speed. Like, what a hats off to him. I wonder if they pushed his minutes a little bit. And I'm not, I I don't know. I don't know if they're, you know, into because it started off being like I think 22, like 17 to 22, and then it started to ramp up and all of a sudden he was 30 and 40, like it was nothing. And so I do wonder if they got a little overly excited and said, okay, because you know it's playoff time, like they want to play him. Um I think ultimately they did a great job with him. I just wonder, like, if they should have like, I don't know, piped, like just tempered it a little bit because that when he had that uh tightness in his thigh, I was thinking like, uh, maybe we're maybe we're pushing it a little bit. I don't know the answer to that. Um, it he said he could have played round two, which obviously everyone would have loved to see his uh just going back at it with the Knicks, especially with how emotional that would have been, considering he ruptured his Achilles Achilles in that series. But all in all, people should be really excited about Jason Tatum in in this next season. It of course, if healthy.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone wanted that rematch with the Knicks. Like everyone was itching to be like, we want our revenge on the Knicks from uh from last year. But I mean, the Knicks are playing really good basketball right now. It's almost like they clicked at the right time. Um, so I'm interested in seeing, you know, how things do play out for them moving forward. I mean, you mentioned that OKC Spurs series. I mean, that game last night was crazy. Gosh, so I was so entertained. I was like, I want seven games of this because like this, if if this is how every game of this series goes, like I just want more and more and more of that. And I feel like that series is gonna be fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

It's unbelievable and it's kind of scary if you're the East. Like, there is a meme of uh Drewski and whoever I forget sitting on the bench, like looking at each other, like, bro, if you're the Eastern Conference right now, if you are if you are the Knicks in Detroit looking at the Spurs and OKC, you're like, oh shoot. Like, we we got our work cut out for us because the these two teams, OKC with SGA and Victor Wembenyama, with how they are playing and matching up together, going into double O OT last night was outrageous. And Wemby, this man is in his third year in the level. He can shoot the three lights out, he's getting killed around the rim and still being able to finish. And what I love about him, he's so young in this league and he doesn't complain. He's not going to the ref, he gets ejected a couple of games ago, and and he kind of looked at himself like I love there was the like he asked his teammate, like, what happened? I got ejected. Oh, like, but there's he's just so well composed and um and lethal. Like he's unbelievable. And I think this specific series, man, I I I feel like the winner of this series is gonna take all. I really do. I think whether it's numbers or OKC, like they're just so hard to take down. Detroit and New York. I mean, hats off. I I hate giving credit to New York because you know our how we are. I think we do. Um, and they always tweet at me every time I like mention their name. So be prepared. Oh yeah, there we go. New York basketball. Like Chris and I are like, they're yeah, we we got we got beef. Um but I mean, hats off to New York because Jalen Brunson has been carrying this team and they they just look like a well-composed team. One of the things that we were talking about on NBC Sports Boston, even just in our email threads, is like, you know, does this expose the Celtics more with how OKC and the Spurs are playing or even New York? And I think it does. I think it, I think it's not alarming, but it just goes to show like if I'm Brad Stevens, I'm like, man, I really got to put the right roster together. Because if our goal is to not only get back to the finals but win the championship title, what kind of player personnel do we need? And I think their priority has to be a big man. I think it has to be, I know we talked about Giannis. Um, I don't love the trade for Jalen Brown. I know he's a hot topic right now, you know, going off on Twitch and doing play-by-play about Stephen A. Smith's comments, but I still, which I have my own, you know, thought process on. I still think that they need someone like a Giannis. Um, but it I don't think it has to be a Giannis. I think it can be a guy um that just fits the role, like fit like a Bam out of bio. So someone who like kind of Bam would be fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

I don't know, I don't think they'd ever move him, but I think he would be a great fit for this team. He was actually somebody that I mentioned like right when the Celtic season ended. And I was like, it's clear they need a big man. I was like, I feel like Bam would be a fit.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Exactly, because someone who could fit into the Joe Mazzula offense and role, and also allows the stars to be the stars. The problem with the Giannis is I, you know, Jason Tatum says two things that he wants at the end of the season wants for next year to win another title and to be finals MVP. I don't know if you bring in a guy like Giannis with the ego that he has and obviously the health issues that he's had before, um, if the egos will blend well. Like, I don't know if you're because then all of Boston may get up for Giannis and take some of the heat away from JT. Or maybe it's a it could go one of two ways, right? And I think it's a little bit less of a risk and more of a benefit if you get a guy like Bam, who is not going to be the star of the team, but is gonna be that one-two punch in the pick and roll. Namiash Keda can also learn from a guy like Bam, like in terms of discipline. Like I think Nimi was getting exposed defensively with all the foul trouble. Like, you gotta learn to sell it in this league a little bit. Um, so I just think you're right. Like a guy like Bam, um, Jalen Johnson, I think would be a great ad too. He's a Duke guy. I don't know if they get him, but just someone who's kind of that role player big man, uh, I think would be a huge, I think would be the perfect get for the Celtics moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Yeah, it's interesting because obviously there's been a lot of talk about splitting the Jays up. And I feel like Tatum and Brown have really learned how to play together. You know, they I mean the guys won a championship together. It's it's you know, I feel like the their roles when they're both healthy and they're both playing kind of fit them really well. And you mentioned Jalen Brown and the role he took on this season. I think that was one of the biggest reasons why I was a little bit hesitant to, you know, rate the Celtics as high as they ended up being when it came to um the end of the season and them being the two seed and all that. I was like, you know, they might make the playoffs like they're still really talented. But like I was thinking, you know, maybe get into the play-in or something and just be a team that, you know, kind of kind of floats like in in the talk, but maybe isn't like a legitimate contender. And then being where they were was was amazing. And, you know, I think the biggest thing was can Jalen Brown step up? I think that was a big question going into the season was can he take on that role that they're gonna be missing with Tatum out? And you know, Jalen deserves so much credit for the season he had. And obviously, there were talks about him being in the MVP discussion. You know, do you feel like he should have won MVP, or do you think that that was something that ended up going in the right direction the way that it played out with SGA getting it again? Because obviously, when you think of the word valuable, I mean, this team would not have been where they were without Jalen Brown this year. I'll get you right back to my chat with Kayla Burton from NBC Sports Boston. But ball players, if you're serious about your game, it's time to swing with the best. Tater Baseball designs premium wood bats, training gear, apparel, and accessories built for players who want to perform at the next level. Trusted by hundreds of pro players and built from a passion for the game, Tater combines elite craftsmanship with modern performance. From the cage to game day, Tater helps you train harder, swing faster, and stand out. Gear up today and join the thousands of players choosing Tater baseball.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Period. And Gabby, you nailed it. I think it's such a great question because do I think he should have won MVP overall in the league? No. Um, and I say that just because of their postseason collapse. I think like he would, if he could have just, and I know that's asking a lot out of a guy who's done so much in the regular season, averaging about 30 points a game, like his assists to to rebounding or to you know, just overall player being that kind of one-two player both offensively and defensively. Like, I think he took his game to a whole nother level with not a whole lot around him. And I and I'm saying I'm not like discrediting the rest of the roster, like I just think there were so many question marks and and new, newly experienced kind of guys like Luca Garza, Ugo, Jordan Walsh, Sam Hauser's known for the three, Peyton Pritchard, you weren't sure. Like Derek White didn't have such a great year. So Jalen, there was a lot more asked of Jalen. So I think if you are looking at the complete roster and his role in that, I mean, definitely MVP conversation. And I'm glad he rounded out six. Um and I I think SGA, the thing about SGA is like one, he does have the talent around him, so it's gonna make him look better, right? But he also is just incredible. His mid-range game, his consistency from downtown, his ability to get the the other guys going. And what really separates him is his playoff push. And like right now, you're talking about a guy who's gonna go probably back to back in the finals and may win it back to back. So, like, yes, I think SGA and even Victor Wembenyama, like those guys deserve to be in the top conversation when it comes to MVP. I don't think Jalen's far off at all. Um, because of the roster, because of his ask. Um, but I just think right now the next step and the next level. Is going to be him alone. And I don't know if we're going to see that again. It's going to be dependent on if he's back here with Tatum or if he decides, you know, if they trade him maybe to Atlanta or wherever, and he has to be that number one guy, how far he can take the guys around him into the postseason. That's where I think he'll start to really, you know, be a true contender in terms of winning it. Um, but like you said, I don't think it's a discredit at all to what he did this season. Like, look, right now, everything is hot and topic, you know, the topics are hot where everyone's talking about does he get traded? Um, does he want to be here? I know he said it verbatim, but you know, him going back and forth with Stephen A and stuff, it does kind of expose him and in terms of everyone kind of questioning, like, why is he mad? Like, is he upset? Does he want to be here? I would love for Jalen Brown to still be here. I think that I would love to see the Jays uh like really make another push because the thing is, too, we're seeing what we're gonna see next year. Let's say if Jay Jalen and Jason stay here as Boston Celtics, you're gonna see a new duo that we really haven't seen before. I know these two have been together for the past nine plus years, right? But at the same time, you haven't seen this version of Jalen Brown coming off of the season that he just had and a restored Jason Tatum. Like this is going to be a different combination. And I think for them to even get a taste of it in the postseason, even though they collapsed uh against the Sixers, they still were able to work together. And I think, you know, the whole question, all the topics were all right, Jason Tatum's back. Uh-oh, what is this gonna look like? Is there gonna be drama? Is this there are there gonna be two number ones, or can they play together? They can play together pretty well. It's just now they gotta have the complete roster and play defense against a guy like Joel Embiid who just tore him up. And then Paul George also was playing like he was playing back in his OKC days, like he just looked ridiculous. So I think if if they give it a chance, and I I think I can't tap into Brad Stevens' minds because he's so genius and who knows what he's going to do. Um, but I just feel like he would want the Jays to stick together and then add a big man. And I think that could be a great recipe for a title run. I really do. I think Jalen deserves all the credit. I know he's running his mouth right now on Twitch, but like I hope people don't let that discredit from all that he has done this season. Like he proved it. He proved it. And now it's about I just wonder, does he want to win another title in Boston being with Jason Tatum as kind of that one-two punch, or does he want a team for himself where he's just the true number one guy? I think that's something that I try to wrap my mind around. I'm not, I'm not too sure yet about.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah, because it's hard because you don't want to do something so drastic that you're basically tearing the team apart and then you're risking throwing off chemistry, like you mentioned with Giannis. I mean, that's a hit or miss move to make. Like you don't want to put all of your eggs into that basket, get rid of you know, everything it would take to get Giannis here, which obviously would be a haul. And then if Giannis and Tatum aren't meshing together, and then it looks like a situation where the Celtics maybe just didn't benefit from it. Um, whereas, you know, you could still get the necessary peace that you need, but feel like you're keeping a lot of your core intact. And that feels more along the lines of something that Brad Stevens would probably want to do because I feel like he understands that chemistry is a huge thing in this game. And you don't want to just go and make a move that, you know, is that drastic and risk it maybe not working. And I feel like Tatum and Brown at this point, like that duo together, you know, that's what won them a championship a couple seasons ago. And it's hard. I mean, if if Jalen doesn't want to be here, obviously that's a different conversation. But um, you know, if if they're if that's all just smoke and mirrors and he does want to be here, then I don't know that Brad Stevens would be willing to necessarily break that up because you look at Jason Tatum and where he's at, you know, and obviously he didn't play game seven against the Sixers. How much do you think that played a factor in kind of their downfall in this series against Philly? Because if he was feeling that pain in game six, too, why why do you think they maybe had him play game six? And then in game seven, they were like, all right, he can't he can't play now. Like, do you think they felt like we can still win this game without him? So we want him to be healthy for the next series. I that's a I do think so.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Um, it was so weird, right? Because it was seven, you have Joe who's coming out with the starting lineup with Ron Harper Jr., Luca, and I laugh because I just like this blows my mind. What are we doing? And it's it's such a Joe Missoula move, right? Because he's he is the type of guy that's like, huh, I'm gonna throw like the ultimate curveball at you guys, and like we're gonna win with three guys in a rotation that we've never seen even in a starting lineup before play together. And obviously it didn't work. I don't think them starting was the reason why they lost. I think um, yes, they got they dug themselves in a hole. They were, you know, Philly was up 11 to 3, and it was just like really hard to come back from that. Um, I think when in regards to Jason Tatum, when you're playing, I think Joe, when Joel Embiid returned, it did shift everything. I think that game five again, like JT was playing, they had a terrible fourth quarter. I believe they only they only scored 11 points in the fourth quarter in game five. They had to go back to Philly. So I think that game alone right there made them realize, like they looked at themselves and said, How the heck are we going back to Philly after having such a collapse? We could have easily won it here, and then we can push on to round two. Um, and I think that changed the narrative. And then so I don't know what the attitude is like. I can't imagine it was like super exciting going back and playing in front of a Philly crowd that's yelling, we want Boston, and everyone's like, you know, now, oh shoot, like playing a little bit timid. And that's what they did. They looked terrible in game six. I mean, in game six, I've never seen the Celtics look so um just the chemistry was off. They were playing scared, the ball movement was bad, like it just they were getting killed on the glass, and and specifically offensively, Tyres Maxi, PG, and like Joel Mb just just ate them. They ate them apart, they tore them apart. And then to put the icing on the cake, Jason Tatum, you know, doesn't play the fourth quarter because he's injured. Um, so I just think going into game seven, it was weird to me that Jalen Brown didn't find out, according at least to what he said, 45 minutes prior to the game, he found out that JT's not gonna play. So I'm like, okay, well, so if he didn't find out that Jason Tatum wasn't gonna play 45 minutes prior to the game, he must have not known the starting lineup either. And then and then on top of that, you find out that you got, hey, we're gonna like totally change this thing up. We got Baylor Sherman, Ron Harper Jr., uh, Luca Garza, JB, and who am I missing? Was it Sam who was in it? No, Sam, Sam, I think, benched. It was Nene. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Mimi didn't start.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Anyway, three of the wait, wait, wait, can you say, wait, can you go through that again?

SPEAKER_00 29:04

So you had Namiash K. Sorry, Nimi was benched. It was Ron Harper Jr., yeah, uh, Luca Garza, Baylor Shireman, Derek White, Jalen Brown. That was the starting class in games. That rotation as a starting group has never stepped on the floor together as a starting group. And you saw in the first quarter, it was like 10. I remember cutting up film, 10 minutes and 14 seconds in the first quarter. Jalen Brown is dribbling on the right side, Ron Harper Jr. cuts underneath the hoop. JB thought like everyone was rotating, and he throws it to Sam Cassell, who's the assistant coach. Like he just throws it out of bounds. And so right there and there, it just shows like there's no chemistry within this group. Um, they're all good players, but I just think that wasn't personally. I thought I liked it at first. I was like, oh, this is kind of sick. Like they can win this thing with this, you know, kind of headline. But I just don't think it was the right time to make a move like that because it seems very desperate. And with Jason Tato not being in the mix, look, I'm not Nick saying, I'm not a doctor. I'm not gonna be able to say, I'm not, I'm never gonna get mad at a player, you know, if they really can't go, they can't go. Um, and I know there's a lot of comparisons of like, well, Kobe would have done it and this and that. Yeah, yeah. Yep. There is a little passion behind that being like, it's game seven, wake up, you know. Um, but at the end of the day, I just think I didn't think that they wanted it as badly as Philly did as a complete group from the coaching staff all the way down. I think, and Brad Stevens said that he was like, all credit to Philly. They wanted it more and they and they showed it. And so, yes, if Jason Tatum was out there, would it have changed the narrative? I totally think so. Um, I'm really shocked to believe that they would have said, Oh, they can win this with that. Like, it's game seven, they already lost the past couple, game five and game six. So, like, I don't know if they were super confident being like, we got this in the bag, you know. And if they were, they're fun enough.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

There's no way they they could have thought that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Tatum was like, truly, I think he just was hurt and and they were having to figure it out. But I don't know, it was such like a it was weird. Um, and I get like trying to really change it up, but I I clearly it didn't work out. So um I don't know. I I think Jason would have definitely he definitely would have changed it up. I just like Philly from game five on wanted it more and they showed that.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah, the intensity was definitely there with Philly, and it just wasn't really there with the Celtics nearly as much. I was like, why do I feel like I'm watching a game right now and these guys just don't want it? Like, I feel like I'm sitting here like tense, like yelling at my TV, and I'm like, I don't feel like that same energy is being projected onto these players right now. Like, I feel like they're kind of just like going through the motions, and obviously, you know, that starting five in game seven is definitely a factor in that. These guys probably feeling like, well, like, you know, what are we supposed to do? Like, we're not used to this group, which which is fair, but like I just didn't get the sense that they really wanted to be there. And I think game five, I felt really nervous after that game because I was like, I feel like this was when they had to win it. I was like, I feel like now all the momentum is on Philly's side, significantly more pressure on the Celtics, and like now they have to go back to Philly, which is a really hard environment to play in if you're a visiting team. And like, you know, and beat even said after the series, like, I was tired of losing to them. So he had added motivation to beat the Celtics, and it just felt like that added motivation really shined through with that team that we just didn't see from the Celtics team. And it's definitely disappointing because, you know, obviously everybody wanted to see them play the Knicks again. But, you know, it really is almost a good thing, I think, the way that it ended in a way, because it'll force Brad Stevens to really look at this roster and say, okay, like obviously we weren't where we thought we were. Like, I think during the regular season, this team looked like it was closer than it was. Um, and then you saw in the playoffs the weaknesses, and they got exposed in a lot of areas. And I think that's where Brad can now really say, okay, this is what we need to improve this roster. But you know, Joe Missoula had a great season overall coaching um and being able to work with this roster. But how much blame do you think he deserves for the way that that series went down? Because it really felt like there was just a complete lack of adjustments, and just in general, in terms of the offensive game plan. And when things weren't working, they weren't really moving away from that. And it felt like they they kept forcing up threes. And we saw this in game seven, too. I mean, they kept chucking up threes and they were missing them. And that that stretch late in the game where they kept missing all those threes, like could have completely changed the way this game went. And I feel like Philly was more capable of making adjustments throughout the series, and the Celtics didn't. So I am curious your thoughts on like, you know, where Joe comes into play there and how much blame he deserves for all that.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Yeah, I think I I think Joe and any head coach, honestly, kind of in in this group and and making a playoff run run, whether they win and deserves the credit, or whether they lose and deserves the blame. Like, like either way, it's on him. He knows that too. Like he does deserve some of the blame for sure, a lot of it. Um, but I also think he also deserves a lot of the credit for what he did in the regular season. Like, I think both things can be true, right? I think he pushed the right buttons in the regular season, uh, had to work with kind of the roster that he got. Then you trade Anthony Simons, you get you acquire um Vooch, and trying to get Vooch going and acclimated, then Vooch gets hurt, so that delays the process. And then you get to the series, and you know, like Nami Ashkeda is getting in foul trouble early, and we mentioned the three-point shooting. So, like, I don't mind the Celtics are an identity or a three-point identity team. I don't mind that. Where I get irritated, or I would like to see something being changed, is when the three ball is not going in, there needs to be a gray area. It doesn't need to be black or white. I don't think you need to live or die by the three. Can you be a three-point identity team? Yes, but you can also create this gray kind of area and avenue where it's like, okay, the three is not going in. We got to get to the rim. And in the fourth quarter, you know, it was like 99.96. And I believe the Celtics took 10 shots. Yeah, it's all 10 field goals, and eight of them being threes. And so for me, that's that is on the coach. That is on the coach to say, yo, we need to work it inside. And if we don't have the personnel, they didn't play Vooch. So clearly, Joe Mazzula didn't trust the group that he has in game seven. And and I don't think you know, Vooch was not performing all that well uh against the 76ers, too. So I I can understand that, but it also just showed the lack of trust with like Namiash Keda being out there because he kept getting in foul trouble early. So I think it was really like the Celtics got really exposed game seven, and I do think that falls on Joe Mazzo because ironically, even when they went with a bizarre jarring rotation to start, they still cut it to two and one in the fourth quarter. And so that's on the coach to put the play. I mean, it's on the players to score, but if you're not making the three, you gotta find a way to work it inside. You gotta get to the rim, you gotta get the mid-range game going. Like, there has to be an adjustment, and that has to be a timeout call saying, like, look, you we're not taking a three, but unless it's wide open, you need to work it inside. And so that's where I do think he got out coached. Uh, and it's something for him to learn too. Like, yes, does he deserve the credit along with the team that surrounded him in the 2024 championship run? Absolutely. But now they got to move forward. Like, now I do, you know, the conversation is that is Joe Mazzula on the hot seat. And I would say yes. Uh, I think he's a great coach. I think he's the right coach for this team, and some people, a lot of people would disagree with me on that. But I do, I think he gets the best out of his players. I just wonder if he's willing to adjust and and not prove like, no, this is how we're going to do it. If he's willing to have that conversation and listen and kind of say, all right, my way to a degree may have not worked in terms of like we are gonna live and die by the three. Let's try to work like, you know, a mid-range area in in those specific situations. Now we did kind of like wink wink say postseason, and Brad even owned his part part of this too, but being like, we need the right player personnel, we need the right roster. And so I don't think that like Namish Kedah matched up against Joel Embiid is gonna be like he Namish Keita, as I mentioned, has grown tremendously around the room scoring offensively, but you need a real big man to like trust that you can work it inside, go in and get and get the and one or get to the line. I don't think they have that right now. I don't think Garza is that guy. I don't think Nami Shada is that guy yet. And Vooch they don't trust because they mentioned him. So I get why Joe Mazzula was like, we don't have the personnel to like go up and score against Joel Embiid. So I I can understand that like he's playing to what he's got, but I still think at the end of the day, you're up 3-1 in a series. There's no excuse. You've done this all season long without Jason Tatum. And this is not the Knicks, like this is not like this is a play in team. It was a 76ers that didn't have Joel Embiid half of it. So I that's why I really blame specifically yes, Joe, but also like game five and and the whole team too. I think they had it in the they thought they had it in the bag, they should have had it in the in the bag, and they let it slip. And it is that game seven switch. Like, of course, you you have to blame the coach for kind of changing up the rotation the way he did. It could look if he if it worked, if they were to win, Joe Basul would be hero, yeah, hero of a coach. Oh my god, that was the best move in Boston. Everyone would be like, he's genius, he out, like he out. I don't know, um he he just was outminded everybody and played three guys that Philly didn't see coming. And unfortunately that wasn't the case. So now he looks like the quote unquote idiot. I don't think he is. I think he did it, I think he really is a great coach for this group. I just think that there's some postseason work as a coach that he needs to do.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Yeah, I mean, imagine like what the conversation with like if it was like, oh, he started Ron Harper Jr. and they, you know, they they won game seven, like they won the series, and then they moved on to the next, like he'd be like praised as like this hero, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

You know what it reminds me of, Gabby, because I know that like you do a lot, obviously a ton of Red Sox coverage. It's kind of like like if the Red Sox were to average what is it, four and a half um runs five now, five runs per game, like they their record would be entirely different, way different, way different. So that's the thing. It's not like the Celtics or the the Red Sox are like that far off. You talk about like they just need their offense, they just need to get runners in scoring position and to have a power bat. It's kind of like the Celtics just need that maybe like guy, like that front court guy, like our power bat or the Celtics power bat would be like uh a big man down low that they can work the game inside so they don't have to rely on the three, they can work it inside a little bit. And I just think that they're one player personnel, one like position off from like changing this whole thing. It's very similar between the Sox and the Celtics.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

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SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yeah, that was the whole move. I mean, he knew that they were getting Tatum back, so they were like, okay, who's gonna be that um one-two combo for Tatum when he comes back? And so they needed Vooch, who's experienced, a big man, trying to make a run in the playoffs himself. I just think like the injury, the hand injury that he endured, suffered, or um, set him back a little bit. It was hard to uh to trade the inferno too, because Amber Simons was like a so fun. Like I was at the game where he went off against Orlando with a career high or season high, I believe, um, with 38 plus. And and he was great with this group. I just don't know into and I think Brad thought the same thing. I just don't think you can only play small for so long when you have guys like imagine if you were to get to even against the Knicks, against Carl Anthony Towns, or um go all the way against one of these two teams, an OKC or the Spurs. Like, what are you gonna do when you have Anthony Simons, Derek White, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, and Nimi against Victor Wembin Yama? Like that three-point shooting better be like 80 or above, because it's gonna be a problem. And I and I Brad is smart enough to realize and recognize like we need a big man. And obviously, I don't think this one worked out, but I mean that's part of it. He's probably looking at himself in the mirror, being like, dang, right idea, wrong trade.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Yeah, oh, totally, yeah. And that that's where I'm at with that too. Just not necessarily the right player, but the idea of what he was doing was correct because that was what they needed at the time, and you know, the need still remains of a true big man. And so, keeping all of that in mind, like, what would your ideal offseason look like in terms of um, you know, additions and you know, who do you think we may see potentially be on the move from a player perspective if they're gonna? Trade for somebody.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

I really look at it as like two options. I think either the Brad makes a big splash. It kind of reminds me after the 2023 season collapse to Miami, like that series was so bad. And what did Brad do? He made a huge splash, got Drew Holliday, got Kristaps Perzingis. And that was big, you know. Marcus Smart's gone. So like that, everyone was like, oh shoot, Brad is really shaking things up. So I wouldn't be surprised if Brad were to shake things up and trade. I think it depends on what the real feeling of Jalen Brown and this team feels like. Like what behind closed doors is he really feeling and saying. Um, and having a conversation to Brad uh about wanting to be here, about wanting to be the number one guy and doing that elsewhere, or running it back and trying to win a title. So I think it starts there. It starts with Jalen and what and what that really looks like. I could see Jalen going and Brad having to trade like a couple future first rounders to get a guy like Giannis, and that would be a risk. But I think it would it it could go one of two ways. It could be really exciting and it could be like the perfect recipe for another title run. Um, or it could be the risk that it's kind of like I wouldn't say it's starting Garza, Ron Harper Jr. and Bailey. I don't think it's like that because you have a um key. But it's a splash, right? So it could work, it could also be, you know, ego-based where you got Jason Tatum and Giannis, who are both like big egos and both want to be the number one guy, and it could be bad. Um, the other thing is too, I could see, and personally what I would like lean more towards is keeping the Jays together. And I know that's a risk too, a little bit now, because now you got a little bit more of an ego out of Jalen Brown. Like he's talking a lot, he's kind of trying to control his own narrative. He proved that he's that number one guy, and now he's walking with a little bit of a different swag, a more vocalized swag, I would say, which could create some harm for the team. Um, but like let's say you keep the Jays together, maybe Derek White has to go. And I think Jason, you know the duo between Jason and Derek, like those two are yin and yang. And so, like, I think Jason Tatum will be fine no matter like if he were to have anyone by his side or no one, like he's gonna be him. Um but it's just like the Celtics are so dependent on the chemistry of this team, and we got we got to see the inside of that with Katan, that board game that they would travel with that was like the running joke. Like, they are so fun, it's so fun, and they're such a close-knit team. Um, so you don't want to mess up the flow of that. And Brad is really, really good being a former head coach of this organization and now being the uh president of basketball operations, like he sees it, he gets it. So I don't know which way he's gonna lean. I do think in an ideal world, what I would like to see is to keep the Jays together and to go acquire uh mid-level, um, like we talked about, the Jalen Johnson's of the world, the Bam Adibios of the world, Nick Claxon, maybe like kind of the big man guy that can shoot the three ball, play defense, and like be good around the rim. And I think like Al Horford was that for them. Like Al was like such a good defender, he was like the father of the group, you know, like also could shoot the three, it'd be a stretch five, but it was just you know, I didn't think that it just didn't work out financially and what he wanted to get paid and whatever the case was. But if they can get like not a Giannis, but like a someone underneath that's a big man, then I think like that would be a good off-season change. I think it would be sad though, because like for you know, the Celtics Nation, like you love Derek White, even though Derek had a rough, rough postseason. Like he was Derek White was really, really upset with himself postseason. And like, I get why he didn't play well, like you know, he was struggling all until that final game, which at that point was just too late. Um, but yeah, I think you may have to see like one of the heart pulses of this team go if you do decide to keep the Jays together and go out and get a big man.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Yeah, I mean, obviously, too, like you know, the Marcus Smart move that hurt Celtics fans too. Like that was one of those ones that like emotionally was hard. It's like there are guys where like you feel that, and I think with Derek White, it would be like similar because like everybody loves uh D White, you know, and like he's it like right, yeah, he's just been like such like a huge part of this team, and it's just like that would be hard to see, but you know, it goes to show that like Brad Stevens isn't afraid to you know move people, even if it tugs at the heartstrings a little bit to to make this team better.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Facts, and that's the that's the beauty and curse of this business, you know. Like they know even with Jalen, like if he were to go, I know he's creating some uproar and they're like it's a split divide. People either hate him or love him. Like, that's what I'm listening to inside the sports sub and I'm hearing the calls to Beadle and Scott Zolak being like, like, get him out of here, blow up the whole thing. He sucks, his attitude is terrible. And then the other people are like, like, you know what he did for this season? He carried the team, so it is a split divide. Um, but what we do know is look, this team, specifically the Jays, won together. So they're not unfamiliar with each other and what it takes to get to that level. Um, I just think when you look at that 2024 championship group, you had that Drew Holiday, who was the best defender. You had Derek White, you had Jalen, you had Chris Staffs, you also had Luke Cornette. Like, like there were big men that were playmakers around the rim. And I think like Nini Garza is that spark, but like no, there's there's I think the priority has to be a front court guy because you look back at and it's never gonna repeat of that specific roster. Every year and a championship win across the NBA, like has its own personnel for a reason. I just wonder, and by the way, you know the Jays are getting paid big time, so it's like who's gonna be enough where you can trade and bring in a valuable guy? Or you trade a guy like Jalen Brown, who is making 50 plus like he's making the 142 million in the next two years, like 71 each year. Um you better get a good bang for your buck, which you would with him. But again, it's just there's so it's all Tetris. It's like, okay, we bring in this guy, and on paper, there were even talks about like LeBron James being here. Personally, I don't want it. And I LeBron's a LeBron, right? Like, I'm not sure. I it would be so weird, but like it would be a fake love. Like he's hated Boston the whole time. Now he's you know, with the part of the Fenway group, like it would just be so bizarre. I personally wouldn't like it, and it's not any dig at LeBron. I just think that is like too big of an ego with even with Joe Missoula. I don't think that would work. Like, I just don't think it would work. So Brad has work has his work cut out for him to fit like who's gonna work for keeping Joe Missoula, which I believe they are, who's gonna work with Joe, who's going to understand like the foundation of this group of this team, understand that Jason Tatum is our number one guy, and you know, how can we balance a little bit more of the three in the inside game? And so yeah, I I still don't have an answer to it. I'm curious to see. Um, I know the Athletic put out a post of kind of a poll with all the NBA players to see like which guys would go where, and they didn't have Giannis going here. So I thought that was kind of interesting that none of the players really had him going to Boston. Um, not that that is you know gonna reflect what Brad is gonna do because he's like he's like a little genie in his lab, just chefing it up. Like I would love to be a fly on the wall for with Brad C. Like this is where this is where he eats. He's just like, all right, I'm ready to cook.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

He's so intelligent, like he's just such a good basketball mind. And like I just feel like he's just been tremendous in this role that he's in, and that's why I feel like you know, like we think about how this needs to be a big off season for him, but like I trust him to do it because like he hasn't given me a reason really not to.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Right. And you know what I really appreciated out of Brad, it was um the awareness that he had. I feel like collectively across the board, across the board after game seven, didn't feel like there was a lot of accountability. I felt like in terms of like post-game, like yes, they're pissed off. Yes, it all just like collapsed within a snap of a finger. Um, but not really one player or coach said, Yeah, I got work to do. I got and like to each their own. But when Brad spoke, he finally, I was waiting for someone to say, like, I'm pissed off with how that happened. And he said it. He's like, I'm pissed that we're not in round two. Like, like the 76ers beat us, like flat out. We got work to do. I just felt like Brad understands the accountability aspect of it, but also realizes on his front, like like this group that we had wasn't enough to get us past kind of a play-in team. So I, as the GM and as the president, like need to orchestrate that in the offseason and then lay it up for Joe, being like, all right, now it's your time to coach. So I think both are responsible to a degree, uh, especially of what they do this offseason.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Yeah, for sure. I mean, accountability is good, and I think everybody should be held accountable in some capacity here, because obviously, you know, no matter how you slice it, blowing a three to one series lead is bad, like regardless.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Especially in Boston. Boston's like, I need an answer right now. What the bleep just happened? Like, we we're we're spoiled by winning, and I say that in a positive way, but it's also like no, it's so true, it's so true.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Like, yeah, we were even talking about it briefly earlier, like the Boston community, like, you know, expects a lot. Like, we hold teams to a high standard, and you know, you need to live up to that standard. And again, it's a good thing because we've seen so many championships from these teams that it's like we just expect that now. But it was very frustrating that they weren't able to figure it out at home because that was really to me where it felt like they had to win it and just not even take that series back to Philly in game six. Uh, that to me was where that kind of led to the downfall of this team. Game five to me was the most important game of that series. And I actually said prior to the series, yeah, I think the Celtics win this in five. And it looked great early on in the series. It's like, all right, you know, like game one like was a breeze. Game two was like, all right, like, you know, like this, this may not be as a much of a you know blowout of a series. Celtics easily win this as maybe people thought. And then like when things started getting a little bit interesting, game five, game six, it's like, all right, like they're not playing playing good basketball right now. And and when you have you know Embiid back, that's a that's a Sixers team that I think can do damage. And and like you said, I think Embiid coming back just changed the whole trajectory of that Sixers team and what they were capable of in that series, which is so frustrating too, because Embiid was uh Embiid was great, but even in game seven, he looked gassed.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

This man was exhausted. And I'm like, that like this is where I do think Joe could have done a better job coaching, like bring him out, like make him even more tired, like bring him out in the pick and roll and make him play in that action where he has to defend. And I just don't think they capitalized on that. Tyrese Maxie, he may be one of my favorite players in the NBA. I this guy is so explosive, he's so quick, he's so hard to guard. And I was honestly, I was I remember like before round one even happened, like we were kind of picking and choosing, like, who would you rather see um in round one, the Hawks or the 76ers? And I'm like, and people are like, oh, the 76ers. I'm like, I don't know. Tyrus Maxie is so lethal and he's so hard to guard. And on top of that, like, I know Joel Embiid was hurt at the time, but like Paul George is playing probably the best basketball that he's played in the world. And then you have like those three being a little bit of a three-headed monster, it created a problem. The only annoying thing is is like you're right. I still, even with those three together, think this this was the it was more of the Celtics losing this than like the 76ers taking it, like they or winning it out outwardly. Like, I just think they got comfortable, they were up 3-1. Shoot, I got comfortable. I was talking some ish, being like, All right, like we got this in the bag, and then oh yeah, no, same.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Yeah, I was like, they're not gonna lose three in a row, like we'll be fine.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

Right, which by the way, they haven't lost three in a row in the regular season. Maybe like every I have to like go back and really calculate like how many games, three in a row. Usually, if they lose back to back, they are fantastic coming off like their record coming off of back-to-back losses is great. So I'm like, oh, this is shouldn't be an issue. But the game five, once in game five, I think the whole city of Boston got a little quiet and skeptical of like, where is this team really at? And then game seven just felt like a eff it. We're gonna just see, like, from from Joe making that decision last second, it just felt like let's just go out there and and and see, see what happens. And that's where it's it's like, I don't know if that was the right play. I don't know if that was the right move, but I don't think game seven cost him. I think it was game five.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

Oh, yeah, yeah, I I agree a hundred percent. I think game five was really what switched the momentum completely in that series, and that's when Philly felt like we can actually win this because I think that was what the mistake was when it came to the Celtics was like you gave them that hope of okay, we we can win this series, and then they just didn't look back after that, and then it was just so disappointing that they got swept by the Knicks because I was like, Well, that makes us look even worse now that they kind of just rolled over against the Knicks. I mean, Embiid in that series was a completely different person than he was against the Celtics.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

Yeah, and they were gassed against the Knicks, like they like Embiid exhausted all of his energy, they weren't supposed to beat the Celtics, so then they get past them, and then they're like, they probably were surprised at themselves, like, oh shoot, like now really, and yeah, and I honestly thought the Celtics would struggle against the Knicks. I just didn't know if they had it on their bingo card that they would go out in the first round to the 76ers, like that and you know what? If they aren't humbled, shame on them. And I they are, I would imagine that they are, but even from like a coaching standpoint, like trickling down all the way to Jalen Brown. I know there were comments of JB, everyone knows this, but like him calling it his favorite season. I personally don't mind him saying that because I think that he did like like if he's looking at this as a personal kind of career aspect level, like, yeah, he had an opportunity presented itself where he's able to step up and be that number one guy, and he did that. I get where people are like it's tone-deaf because you just lost, and the first thing that you're saying is like, oh, this is my favorite season. I think that's a little taken out of context. I will say this he did go on his Twitch and talk about like, you know, how he's not getting the right calls. And I know that was like a frustration of his all season long. I don't think that was the time and the place to do it immediately after their loss. That's the credibility factor. And I'm I'm like JB's one of his biggest fans. Like, I love his game, I love how he is active in the community. Like, I just think he gets it from a Boston lens. I just think afterwards on this Twitch stuff, and I don't even mind him saying what he wants to say. It just feels like if I were to lose the way we did and collapse three to one after having carried this team the whole season, would I be tired? Yes. Is Jason Tatum not playing and that kind of sucks? Absolutely. But I would have just been like, that's on us. Like, I need to be better in the postseason of carrying us to round two instead of blaming the refs or or this and that. Like, that's where I just felt like not the right time. Not the right time.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Yeah, yeah. People were ripping Jalen for that comment. And it's like, yeah, I mean, there's a time and place for it, and right after you lose the series, probably isn't it. But like, I get like what he's trying to get at and like why he said that, but like that, I feel like just the way that he went about it probably just wasn't the best look for him.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

And then you know media is gonna like eat it up when you make a comment. Like, I don't believe this, but media, we we just I mean, everyone, not only media, the audience like feasted on this, being like, Oh, you're saying it's your favorite year without Jason Tatum. Like, yeah, that's the reality of what it looks like. I don't think that's why. I really don't have to be honest and seeing it. I do think that there is an ego with both of them and a good and kind of when you are a star player, you have to have that ego. Um, I don't think it was a job though at Jason Tatum. I also think it wasn't the right time to just say that all. Like, just wait a week. Can we wait a week?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Let this all let this all settle. Let the fact that you guys do a 3-1 series lead settle first before you go saying things like that. But like, let's yeah, I don't think he was I don't think he meant to say it as like taking a jab at Tatum of like, oh, like I was so happy when he like that he wasn't playing this year. Like, I don't think he meant it like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

Right. I don't think he did either. I just think there's a lot of egos in this league, and you know, coming off of a series, uh not a series, um a season where he personally carried this team into the postseason, but really their goal should not be oh, hats off, you know, we we exceeded expectations, hats off, and we just collapsed against a not so great of a team in the postseason. Like it needs to be going into this year. What do we what is it going to take not to get to a title game, but to win the title? Like, and that and that's where I think everyone is on the hot seat because like it's not it's not good enough. And and it's been, you know, at this point going into 2026, 27, like it's time to win again. And I think that's like I think that's Brad Stevens' mentality right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

And that's good, that's a good thing because that means he'll I I think he will maximize the offseason. I think he knows exactly what needs to happen in order for this team to get back there. But just watching that game last night, the OKC Spurs game, I was like, yeah, this Celtics team this year is just not where those teams are at. And that just is the reality at the end of the day. I mean, those teams are insane, and they're they're both gonna be really good for years to come. So look out, league. But um, you know, I think the Celtics, it's clear that they have work to do if they want to get to the level that those teams are at now. And I do trust Brad to kind of navigate that situation this offseason, but we'll definitely have to see how that plays out.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

He's done it before. I do think he'll do it again. I'm just curious to see if it's gonna be a big splash in the Jay, one of the Jays. Well uh Jason Tab's not going anywhere if they'll be or keep the Jays and then kind of like have, like you said, our hearts ripped out by the Derek Whites and Sam Howishes of the World, and then getting a newbie that plays in the front court. We'll have to see, Gabby. I don't know. It's gonna be it's an interesting offseason right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

It is, it totally is, and it's gonna be an interesting offseason, I think, for a lot of teams and just some of these big names that are being talked about, like where they end up. Like, does Giannis even end up getting moved? And if so, to where? I think that's gonna be a big storyline of this offseason. But you know, I'm definitely looking forward to some of the chaos, and it'll be interesting to see you know how different this roster might look next year compared to what we saw this year. Because I think, you know, with Boston being championship city and the expectations now, they're gonna have to do a lot to redeem themselves from that three to one lead blown.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

Totally, totally. I'm also curious to see what they do stylistically, um, three-point um conversation. Like, I don't think Joe Mazul, Joe Mazula is a, and I say this in a positive way, but it also could, you know, uh shoot himself in the foot a little bit. Like he is a stubborn coach, he's very set in his ways. He knows what he wants, he knows what he believes, he knows what he trusts. Will he be willing to work with if they get the right player personnel to work it inside a little bit more and not just be so reliant on the three? Again, I like the three. I'm so I'm biased towards that. I'm washed up, but playing at my college days, like I love the three ball. But that was my game. And I feel like Brad orchestrates teams that likes or players that like likes to shoot the three, but also just having a little bit more leniency and balance of like working it inside. So curious, curious to see how Joe is gonna coach this year, too, with with what they have.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of crazy takes out there, like fire Joe and just like blow the whole thing up. That's definitely not what should happen here. There's definitely a lot of talent and a lot of core pieces still on this team. It's just a matter of getting them to that next level. And I'm excited to see what they do. But I really appreciate you taking the time to come on here and chat with me about all of this. I definitely could chat with you like all day. This has been so fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

Yo, thank you so much. This was so fun, Gabby. You do such a great job. I mean that wholeheartedly. So I'll I mean you you're very knowledgeable in what you're covering, you're very realistic, and you also call people out too, you know, like you keep it 100. You'll be like, all right, this needs to get better. So thank you for having me on. Um, listen, Boston, we're gonna be okay. We got some tweaks and some work to do, but everyone just catch your breath. It's gorgeous outside, it's like 90 degrees out right now, which I'm too. No one is here. Um, but it but everything's gonna be all right. I think a couple of tweaks here and there will be all right. Gabby, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

Yeah, thank you so much. Um, definitely gonna have to have you on again. There's so much more for us to definitely chat about, but I I like that that mentality of everybody take a deep breath and relax and just let Brad Stevens do his thing because I do think he's gonna I think he's gonna have a good off season and I think people are gonna be feeling a lot better about where things are at, hopefully, going into this upcoming season.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

So I agree. I agree, Gabby. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:19

Thank you so much, and thanks as always, everybody, for tuning in. Make sure you subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and also check me out every day on Locked on Red Sox too. They are having an absolute roller coaster of a season, uh, not in the best way. So um, I'm still here talking about them. So if you want to tune in there, you can check out both my shows wherever you get your podcasts, and I'll be here. And you know, let's go, Patriots, Bruins, Celtics, Red Sox, you name it, Boston sports, best city. So uh we'll uh we'll have some fun. But um, thanks as thanks so much, Kayla, and thanks so much as always, everybody. And I'll catch you guys next time.